Tuesday, December 12, 2006

how do scriptures like these speak to the Church today, if at all?

Jude 3-4
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

2 John 9
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23-24

No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

I'm not claiming that I know for sure. I just wrestle with what texts like these say to a pluralistic society.


Anonymous said...


I'm not a bible scholar with a PhD. Yet I know each text was written for a particular moment in time for a particular audience.

Yet I believe the texts you cite are eternal truths of the Christian faith that are absolute truth and are relevant to our generation, the next, and generations to come until Jesus returns. These texts are mostly Jesus' directives to the Church.

If these texts are not eternal truth, "then my faith is in vain".

I'll agree that texts like
"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A WITCH TO LIVE." Exodus 22:18 was written for a specific time and audience. There is some discussion on how this Mosaic law applies today. Conservative Christianity should be in agreement that witchcraft, divination, and all matters of the occult are an affront to the holiness of the Lord and must be avoided and rebuked.

But the Church should have learned we can't have witch hunts and executions. This was learned in the Spanish Inquistition and the Salem Witch Trials. This is not action Jesus would have condoned in my opinion. No, Jesus set new examples in prayer and fasting, casting out demons, confronting evil with merely His Name, Jesus. He also gave us the Holy Spirit to give us grace and spiritual assistance.

Exercise: What if a group of scientists prove that a particular tribe is descended from Amalek. Israel disobeyed God by not killing all the Amalekites. Would a orthodox Jew feel commanded and justified to fufil Samuel 15:3 or had the "statue of limitations' on the directive from God expired?

Samuel 15:3 (ESV)
3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction [1] all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

I would have to rebuke any Christians that would oufit for war to "smite the people of Amalek".

Pray to Christ without ceasing,

John Flores
Frisco, Texas

JD said...

2 Timothy 4:3-4

Where you trying to be funny about this scripture? :) This really goes to what we have been talking about the last few weeks. Heresy, "church shopping," denial of Christian tenets. I think this, as John says, is an eternal truth, more so today, than even what Timothy may have been addressing at the time.

Thanks for continuing to post, now that things are slowing down at home, I may be able to get a few up as well.


Armando said...

Hi Jason, it is indeed as JD says about heresy, church shopping and non Christ-centered gospels. It is so difficult today to stant firm and rooted in what we have believed and received as truth. One of the most politically incorrect expressions of the Bible is John 14.6: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This is clearly excluding other ways, other truths, other lives. Are we willing to join the historical believers that stood firmly against their worlds for the truth of the new creation that started in Jesus? Are we willing to stand firm when nobody else seems to bother about orthodoxy? are we willing not to compromise the Biblical truth because or Lord is worth?

Often I think that in centuries past, being Evangelical was a challenge that put your life in danger. Many died for the purity of the gospel. Those many would be ashamed probably of how the mainstream churches have compromised the values they kept even to the price of their own lives.

What has changed is the society, not the truth of the Gospel of King Jesus!

Jason Woolever said...

amen to that Armando!